Disneyland tried the overlay event route back in the 1970s and 1980s – ‘Blast to the Past’, ‘State Fair’, ‘Circus’ etc. It was thought to be a cheap way of keeping the locals interested, certainly cheaper than building new attractions. Pig racing in Frontierland, classic cars in Tomorrowland, the “Globe of Death” in front of the castle (it’s got to be on YouTube)…it didn’t work. Finally some brave soul, a Hero of True Disney, finally spoke up in a meeting and said the words no one wanted to admit: “People go to Disneyland to see Disneyland”. They learned their lesson, and recently had to relearn it with foolishness like ‘X-Games’ at California Adventure. The current events a Epcot are no where near the size, being little more than special merchandising events. They don’t cost all that much but they aren’t going to bring in throngs of DVC owners either.

There’s a reason Walt called it “plussing” and not “netting out to zero”. The way to get people coming back is to offer them MORE, yet WDW seems to think that somehow “different” drives repeat visitation. Ask anyone who runs a restaurant, just changing your menu gets a few curious visitors, but to keep people coming back you need to offer a better menu. Plastering Donald Duck over a filmstrip of Mexico isn’t going to entice me to visit but a new ‘Equatorial Africa’ pavilion will probably get me checking hotel rates on the Internet.

I think the issue is that WDW has been in crisis mode ever since they were forced to pay for buying ABC. Eisner/Iger mismanagement hasn’t stopped. WDW is being hurt by all the cutbacks, hacks and reductions they’ve done over the years to meet those financial demands. True, WDW has been hurt by 9/11 and the economy (which were not beyond what WDW has faced in the past), but the resort’s ability to deal with those issues had already been burned to pay for GO.com, Pixar, and Eisner’s bonus plan.

WDW management doesn’t know how to run the resort. People have been promoted for their ability to surrender to corporate demands than on their ability to run the business. WDW has lost focus on “the show” and so they have lost focus on the audience. And the guests see it and that’s why they are staying away in the millions.

Obviously, as I often complain, so much of their planning and results were so kneejerk, and a simpler solution may have been a better one. Instead of just gutting Future World attractions, later rehabs like Small World and Haunted Mansion show a much more responsible way of making the old seem new, while preserving the quality of something that you know works. Wouldn’t a better way to encourage repeat visitors NOT be to take away some of the most beloved attractions, but to slowly increase the experience, a la live entertainment, more unique dining options, etc? One can see from the success of Ohana alone (booking out 160 days in advance, etc.) that a cautious, steady eye on quality works more than NEW MANAGEMENT (Tiki Room, Journey Into YOUR Imagination).

I think some of the events work, and others make me sigh. The two EPCOT main events (Flower and Garden, Food and Wine) seem to use the park’s infrastructure properly and creatively and augment the EPCOT experience, while they also may provide an excuse not to add to World Showcase in and of itself, I don’t really know.

What I do know is that you all are right that the “Disney Parks” experience is being dumbed down to pirates and princesses, but other solutions are not that far away. One can look to California Adventure and see what seems to be more responsible planning going on, and after all, the somewhat hideous alleged “Night Kingdom” idea was suited specifically towards adults. While I’m glad that one didn’t make it off the drawing boards, I’m glad to know that that idea is floating around in the abstract.

In the face of all this, I choose to hope a bit that we can encourage Disney to make some good decisions – though the new Fantasyland will be mostly a Princess meet and greet, it will hopefully be pretty to look at and not have the Toontown tents anymore…. that alone makes me content to still care.

I used to love Walt Disney World, but I cannot stand what it is today.

Like you said….the parks are dying and I will go on to say that THEME PARKS are dying as well. The whole theme park experience, in my opinion, has burst its bubble.

The frustrating thing is that your read people’s comments on how much they dislike what is going on and it is from normal everyday people and not Disney dweebs.

I live in Florida and subscribe to the idea that the locals would come if you asked them to return again and again and showed them quality and a “FAMILY” experience, not a Pre-Kindergarten experience.

Well, Downtown Disney Westside started life as a retail shopping mall that was to be anchored by the world’s largest Sears, at least THAT didn’t happen…

The old convention wisdom that “Disneyland is for locals and WDW is for vacationers” doesn’t really hold true anymore. For more than a decade everything WDW has done has been with the aim of turning guests into repeat visitors and shortening the time between trips: DVC, cheap motels, dining plans, special events (like marathons and Food festivals), etc. WDW has also radically narrowed their marketing focus from “the general public” down to families and Disney geeks*.

All of this means that WDW’s demographics are more like the Jersey Shore than they are a “dream vacation destination”. Those guests blowing it all on Johnny’s once-in-a-childhood trip are growing fewer in number while more and more guests are there on extended weekends and “we come to Disney World on my birthday every year”. Plus too, the average normal adult that was once attracted to real vacation activities like dining at EPCOT Center and the nightlife of Pleasure Island have been driven away by princess parties and the general branding of the entire property. People who aren’t interested in buying Nemo plush don’t have a lot to see at WDW these days.

WDW management hasn’t caught up to their changing demographic. It’s not exactly like Disneyland’s local, but it’s getting real close. Any show or attraction becomes stale after several repeat viewings; it’s the reason why Disneyland is continually tweaking their offerings and live entertainment. But that costs money and we know how WDW is with capital investment.

* – a big part of Pleasure Island’s decline and the failure of The Boardwalk really to take off is the dramatic fall of WDW’s convention business. As more princesses showed up, fewer dentist groups did – so WDW tried to compensate with even more princesses and so began a death spiral they haven’t pulled themselves out of yet.

There’s no doubt that the talent is richer in LA than Orlando (just compare the face characters in respective parks), but I imagine that the real reason we see less entertainment is the touristy transient nature of WDW’s crowd versus Disneyland’s more seasoned crowd. I know ex-WDW musicians that have been recruited nationwide and came to play, so I imagine the draw would be there to recruit plenty.

Now I do agree about the seedy underbelly PI was starting to draw, which made me reconsider whether or not WDW should have a club district at all. There were certainly many incidents in the PI/West Side parking lot during my stay down there and afterwards, and having a police watchstation at Disney seems to really break the illusion. It’s certainly not worth tarnishing the brand or image. This is why I think smaller, more resort/park inclusive entertainment would work better – you’d never see meth addicts trying to get some play at the Territory Lounge… but I digress.

I’ve just about given up on Downtown Disney at this point… can anyone cheer me up?

I read through post one and one surprised to see my comment stating that I couldn’t wait for part two.

Glad to see you back in the fold. I wonder if the 1970s WDW is lost to us forever and has become a “Mall of America” where they try to satiate the largest number of people. When I visited Disneyland in March 2008, I was astounded by the number of musical acts all over the place. I assumed that Disneyland caters to a much more local crowd, hence the need for a more varied entertainment offering. We all know that WDW lost a lot of its charm of being a vacation resort when Eisner built the place to fill the coffers. At that point, WDW became a mecca, or childhood (and parenthood) rite of passage.

Anyhoo, I love the idea of more localized entertainment that is spread throughout the property. My last trips to Downtown Disney with the family were almost strictly for DisneyQuest.

-Disneyland has the local LA talent pool to pull from. WDW has Orlando. This also contributes to the disparity between Disneyland and WDW both in terms of amount and quality of live entertainment.

-I can’t remember where I read this, but I do believe I remember that at the time of the PI closure announcement, it was strongly hinted at by someone in upper management that part of the reason for it was a desire to lose some of the crowds it attracted – as in a certain “type” of crowd. While I mourn the loss of the AC, if PI was in fact drawing a less savory crowd then closing it was the right answer. Disney having a clean, wholesome family image is far too important to sacrifice for nightlife. That said, I do agree that there ought to be a middle road where there are things to do late at night for adults. I think what you’ve suggested is a good starting point. I also think, as usual, Walt had it right. Date night at Disneyland would need some “generational translating” to work now, but late night, more “mature” (in the actual sense of the word) entertainment within the parks would be a huge hit I think – and park admission would probably keep out the “clubbers.”