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	<title>Comments on: Insert Pithy Reference To My Hong Kong Disneyland Disappointment Here</title>
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	<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/</link>
	<description>Disney news, history, opinion and more - broadcasting from beautiful downtown Progress City, U.S.A.!</description>
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		<title>By: CR</title>
		<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/comment-page-1/#comment-4822</link>
		<dc:creator>CR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progresscityusa.com/?p=1646#comment-4822</guid>
		<description>Reused props from Adventurer&#039;s Club.  Likely, reused bears from Country Bear Jamboree.  Perhaps, some reused flat rides from an out-of-business county fair.  This is so underwhelming, but what can else can we expect from WDI these days?  I had hope Lasseter was going to usher in a new era for WDI and the Disney parks, but alas, there seems to be no there there.  What we get are retread ideas from the folks at WDI who&#039;s noses are so far up Lasseter&#039;s butt (&quot;Listen!  He&#039;ll TAKE HIS EAR OFF!  How cool is that!?&quot;) with bringing Pixar&#039;s intellectual properties to the park there&#039;s very little actual innovation going on because they&#039;re too busy brown nosing.  That&#039;s not fair.  Innovation disappeared long before Pixar was purchased.

One thing not discussed is the supposed budget for all this stuff.  How in the love of Walt can all this stuff cost so much money?!  If this release talked about a full-on Pirates ride and a full-on Mansion I&#039;d think about it.  But I fear the Mansion will be more akin to something you&#039;d see at a regional theme park than a Magic Kingdom.  

It&#039;s insulting to see these off-the-shelf rides with a modicum of theming turning up in a Magic Kingdom park.  Somehow, at crapfests like California Adventure and Disney Studios Paris I&#039;ve come to accept it, but even Hong Kong Disneyland deserves better!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reused props from Adventurer&#8217;s Club.  Likely, reused bears from Country Bear Jamboree.  Perhaps, some reused flat rides from an out-of-business county fair.  This is so underwhelming, but what can else can we expect from WDI these days?  I had hope Lasseter was going to usher in a new era for WDI and the Disney parks, but alas, there seems to be no there there.  What we get are retread ideas from the folks at WDI who&#8217;s noses are so far up Lasseter&#8217;s butt (&#8220;Listen!  He&#8217;ll TAKE HIS EAR OFF!  How cool is that!?&#8221;) with bringing Pixar&#8217;s intellectual properties to the park there&#8217;s very little actual innovation going on because they&#8217;re too busy brown nosing.  That&#8217;s not fair.  Innovation disappeared long before Pixar was purchased.</p>
<p>One thing not discussed is the supposed budget for all this stuff.  How in the love of Walt can all this stuff cost so much money?!  If this release talked about a full-on Pirates ride and a full-on Mansion I&#8217;d think about it.  But I fear the Mansion will be more akin to something you&#8217;d see at a regional theme park than a Magic Kingdom.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s insulting to see these off-the-shelf rides with a modicum of theming turning up in a Magic Kingdom park.  Somehow, at crapfests like California Adventure and Disney Studios Paris I&#8217;ve come to accept it, but even Hong Kong Disneyland deserves better!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/comment-page-1/#comment-4821</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progresscityusa.com/?p=1646#comment-4821</guid>
		<description>I should also point out that I have no artistic talent whatsoever, so don&#039;t think that I think I could do any better...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also point out that I have no artistic talent whatsoever, so don&#8217;t think that I think I could do any better&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/comment-page-1/#comment-4820</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progresscityusa.com/?p=1646#comment-4820</guid>
		<description>Randy: Glad to see you back! I know that I was a little hard on the expansion, but I think that after years and years of hearing about the acknowledged necessity of this project, it seems so underwhelming - especially in a park that everyone says is beautiful but devoid of attractions. It certainly could have been worse - yes, Raging Spirits - and let there be no doubt that I&#039;m very excited to see what they do with the two big E-tickets. But just dropping in some E-tickets and nothing else doesn&#039;t make a Disney park. It seems scatter-shot instead of cohesive.

I know that WDI is having to pay now for poor decisions made by management almost 10 years ago, and that blame for poor decisions must now be shared between Disney management and the HK government. I feel better about underwhelming expansions when I think that they&#039;re laying the groundwork for success in the future - like I said, Grizzly Trail could hold a lot of potential, but only because there&#039;s adjoining space to expand it into a serious land. Where I get worried, and feel the need to agitate, is something like Toy Story Land that, I think, locks them into a seriously flawed concept and layout that will prevent future additions. Once something cruddy is built, even temporarily, it&#039;s hard to get rid of it - just look at Mickey&#039;s Birthdayland.

So, it&#039;s a mixed bag, and I think the expansion will really only be able to be judged several years from now, when we see how they expand on these ideas.

About the concept artists - it&#039;s true that there was a second wave of these master artists, but I have to admit that I&#039;m sadly unfamiliar with them in specific. I think that&#039;s probably because this art was less widely distributed as time has passed and Disney plays their cards closer to their vests than in the time of EPCOT&#039;s construction. Obviously a lot of fantastic art was being done in the early 1990s because it can be seen for Port Disney, Disney&#039;s America, WESTCOT &amp; Animal Kingdom. We just never see this art except on the sly, so we don&#039;t know the artists.

I certainly think there&#039;s room for all styles, but it seems like that crucial element has been missing for several years now.

DC: I agree with you as well, that the medium isn&#039;t crucial to the piece. But I would like to see a mix of things. After all, a lot of Marc Davis&#039;s character pieces were cartoony but they were also brilliant. My problem is that, almost uniformly, the sole art pieces they release for projects anymore are in this very literal, descriptive comic style. It&#039;s been this way for HKDL, the DCA expansion, and pretty much everything else they&#039;ve added for quite a while. In an odd way, it almost seems patronizing - although I can&#039;t justify that feeling at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy: Glad to see you back! I know that I was a little hard on the expansion, but I think that after years and years of hearing about the acknowledged necessity of this project, it seems so underwhelming &#8211; especially in a park that everyone says is beautiful but devoid of attractions. It certainly could have been worse &#8211; yes, Raging Spirits &#8211; and let there be no doubt that I&#8217;m very excited to see what they do with the two big E-tickets. But just dropping in some E-tickets and nothing else doesn&#8217;t make a Disney park. It seems scatter-shot instead of cohesive.</p>
<p>I know that WDI is having to pay now for poor decisions made by management almost 10 years ago, and that blame for poor decisions must now be shared between Disney management and the HK government. I feel better about underwhelming expansions when I think that they&#8217;re laying the groundwork for success in the future &#8211; like I said, Grizzly Trail could hold a lot of potential, but only because there&#8217;s adjoining space to expand it into a serious land. Where I get worried, and feel the need to agitate, is something like Toy Story Land that, I think, locks them into a seriously flawed concept and layout that will prevent future additions. Once something cruddy is built, even temporarily, it&#8217;s hard to get rid of it &#8211; just look at Mickey&#8217;s Birthdayland.</p>
<p>So, it&#8217;s a mixed bag, and I think the expansion will really only be able to be judged several years from now, when we see how they expand on these ideas.</p>
<p>About the concept artists &#8211; it&#8217;s true that there was a second wave of these master artists, but I have to admit that I&#8217;m sadly unfamiliar with them in specific. I think that&#8217;s probably because this art was less widely distributed as time has passed and Disney plays their cards closer to their vests than in the time of EPCOT&#8217;s construction. Obviously a lot of fantastic art was being done in the early 1990s because it can be seen for Port Disney, Disney&#8217;s America, WESTCOT &#038; Animal Kingdom. We just never see this art except on the sly, so we don&#8217;t know the artists.</p>
<p>I certainly think there&#8217;s room for all styles, but it seems like that crucial element has been missing for several years now.</p>
<p>DC: I agree with you as well, that the medium isn&#8217;t crucial to the piece. But I would like to see a mix of things. After all, a lot of Marc Davis&#8217;s character pieces were cartoony but they were also brilliant. My problem is that, almost uniformly, the sole art pieces they release for projects anymore are in this very literal, descriptive comic style. It&#8217;s been this way for HKDL, the DCA expansion, and pretty much everything else they&#8217;ve added for quite a while. In an odd way, it almost seems patronizing &#8211; although I can&#8217;t justify that feeling at all.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/comment-page-1/#comment-4819</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progresscityusa.com/?p=1646#comment-4819</guid>
		<description>Keep in mind that it&#039;s not the medium that makes for a great piece. PLENTY of current concept designers and artists are using Painter and Photoshop to create WONDERFUL art that is easily on par with the oil, watercolor and gouache works that we&#039;ve loved in the past.

That being said, I&#039;m surprised they&#039;re using these pieces as their primary art for release to the public. They&#039;d be fine as secondary concept illustrations, but as key art, they seem rushed and broad. It&#039;s quite possible that&#039;s on purpose, to maintain some secrecy and allow the concepts further development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind that it&#8217;s not the medium that makes for a great piece. PLENTY of current concept designers and artists are using Painter and Photoshop to create WONDERFUL art that is easily on par with the oil, watercolor and gouache works that we&#8217;ve loved in the past.</p>
<p>That being said, I&#8217;m surprised they&#8217;re using these pieces as their primary art for release to the public. They&#8217;d be fine as secondary concept illustrations, but as key art, they seem rushed and broad. It&#8217;s quite possible that&#8217;s on purpose, to maintain some secrecy and allow the concepts further development.</p>
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		<title>By: RandySavage</title>
		<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/comment-page-1/#comment-4818</link>
		<dc:creator>RandySavage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progresscityusa.com/?p=1646#comment-4818</guid>
		<description>There was another, second generation of master artists after the Rymans, Redmonds and McKims retired.  This generation included Dan Goozee, Nina Rae Vaughn, Bryan Jowers among others.  

The key word being &quot;master.&quot;  The individuals that worked for WDI during the creation of Disneyland Paris, DisneySea and Animal Kingdom were not only great at painting awe-inspiring Disney concept art, they were highly-esteemed artists outside Disney.  And just as they learned their craft from the likes of Ryman and Redmond, if they were still there they would be passing their craft on to the 3rd generation of WDI concept artists.

Alas, WDI has been reorganizing for years and these great talents were let go.  What they have now are younger concept artists like Chris Turner who are adept at cartoony renderings and Photoshop, but are not well-experienced in the brush, broad-stroke oil and watercolor paintings that really inspired us all in 1970s-1990s.

As far as your assessment of the HKDL expansion, I think you are a little on the negative side.  Could it have been better?  Of course.  Would I have planned it differently?  Yes.  But considering the economic conditions and that it could have been far worse (Raging Spirits), I am happy with 2/3 of the current plans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was another, second generation of master artists after the Rymans, Redmonds and McKims retired.  This generation included Dan Goozee, Nina Rae Vaughn, Bryan Jowers among others.  </p>
<p>The key word being &#8220;master.&#8221;  The individuals that worked for WDI during the creation of Disneyland Paris, DisneySea and Animal Kingdom were not only great at painting awe-inspiring Disney concept art, they were highly-esteemed artists outside Disney.  And just as they learned their craft from the likes of Ryman and Redmond, if they were still there they would be passing their craft on to the 3rd generation of WDI concept artists.</p>
<p>Alas, WDI has been reorganizing for years and these great talents were let go.  What they have now are younger concept artists like Chris Turner who are adept at cartoony renderings and Photoshop, but are not well-experienced in the brush, broad-stroke oil and watercolor paintings that really inspired us all in 1970s-1990s.</p>
<p>As far as your assessment of the HKDL expansion, I think you are a little on the negative side.  Could it have been better?  Of course.  Would I have planned it differently?  Yes.  But considering the economic conditions and that it could have been far worse (Raging Spirits), I am happy with 2/3 of the current plans.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/comment-page-1/#comment-4814</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progresscityusa.com/?p=1646#comment-4814</guid>
		<description>Obviously, I agree. As I said, I think they would have done better focusing their effort on a fully-formed single new land instead of just trying to grab headlines by saying they were adding three. Of course, if they&#039;re willing to say the park will now have more than 100 attractions they&#039;re willing to say anything.

I don&#039;t know what the deal is with WDI artwork anymore. Everything they release is done in a very cartoony, comic style. Not that there isn&#039;t room for that sort of art, but they don&#039;t release anything at all anymore in that evocative, artistic tradition of Herb Ryman, Dorothea Redmond, or Sam McKim. Everything also has the distinct flavor of Photoshop or Illustrator... someone needs to pick up a paintbrush!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously, I agree. As I said, I think they would have done better focusing their effort on a fully-formed single new land instead of just trying to grab headlines by saying they were adding three. Of course, if they&#8217;re willing to say the park will now have more than 100 attractions they&#8217;re willing to say anything.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the deal is with WDI artwork anymore. Everything they release is done in a very cartoony, comic style. Not that there isn&#8217;t room for that sort of art, but they don&#8217;t release anything at all anymore in that evocative, artistic tradition of Herb Ryman, Dorothea Redmond, or Sam McKim. Everything also has the distinct flavor of Photoshop or Illustrator&#8230; someone needs to pick up a paintbrush!</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://progresscityusa.com/2009/07/01/insert-pithy-reference-to-my-hong-kong-disneyland-disappointment-here/comment-page-1/#comment-4811</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://progresscityusa.com/?p=1646#comment-4811</guid>
		<description>Similarly disappointed. Some interesting concepts, but hardly big enough to be THREE new &quot;lands&quot;. And wow, that artwork seems VERY below-par.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Similarly disappointed. Some interesting concepts, but hardly big enough to be THREE new &#8220;lands&#8221;. And wow, that artwork seems VERY below-par.</p>
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